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5 vs 4 cilindra http://www.vkh.hr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4031 |
Stranica: 5/8. |
Autor/ica: | jopis [ čet ruj 17, 2009 10:35 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: evo pročitajte ovaj text pa onda komentirajte dalje!!
Pametnom dosta The five-cylinder engine's advantage over a comparable four-cylinder engine is best understood by considering power strokes and their frequency. A four-stroke cycle engine fires all its cylinders every 720 degrees — the crankshaft makes two complete rotations. If we assume an even firing engine, we can divide 720 degrees by the number of cylinders to determine how often a power stroke occurs. 720 degrees ÷ 4 = 180 degrees, so a four-cylinder engine gets a power stroke every 180 degrees. A V8 engine gets a power stroke every 90 degrees, (720° ÷ 8 = 90°). A given power stroke can last no more than 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation, so the power strokes of a four-cylinder engine are sequential, with no overlap. At the end of one cylinder's power stroke another cylinder fires. In a one-, two-, or three-cylinder engine there are times when no power stroke is occurring. In a three-cylinder engine a power stroke occurs every 240 degrees, (720° ÷ 3 = 240°). Since a power stroke cannot last longer than 180 degrees, this means that a three-cylinder engine has 60 degrees of "silence" when no power stroke takes place. A five-cylinder engine gets a power stroke every 144 degrees (720° ÷ 5 = 144°). Since each power stroke lasts 180 degrees, this means that a power stroke is always in effect. Because of uneven levels of torque during the expansion strokes divided among the five cylinders, there is increased secondary-order vibrations. At higher engine speeds, there is an uneven third-order vibration from the crankshaft which occurs every 144 degrees. Because the power strokes have some overlap, a five-cylinder engine may run more smoothly than a non-overlapping four-cylinder engine, but only at limited mid-range speeds where second and third-order vibrations are lower. Every cylinder added beyond five increases the overlap of firing strokes and makes for less primary order vibration. An inline-six gets a power stroke every 120 degrees. So there is more overlap (180° - 120° = 60°) than in a five-cylinder engine (180° - 144° = 36°). However, this increase in smoothness of a six-cylinder engine over a five-cylinder engine is not as pronounced as that of a five-cylinder engine over a four-cylinder engine. The inline-five loses less power to friction as compared to an inline-six. It also uses fewer parts, and it is physically shorter, so it requires less room in the engine bay, allowing for transverse mounting. A five-cylinder engine is longer and more expensive to manufacture than a comparable four-cylinder engine, but some manufacturers feel these costs are outweighed by its greater capacity in a smaller space than a six-cylinder. From the standpoint of driving experience, five-cylinder engines are noted for combining the best aspects of four and six cylinder engines. They generate more power and torque than four cylinder engines, while maintaining the fuel economy and "pep" of smaller four cylinder engines. Five cylinder turbos have been used on more than one occasion in sport and racing applications for their balance of performance qualities. The Volvo S60 R (racing edition) has a 2.5 litre turbocharged inline five-cylinder engine which is capable of generating 300 brake horsepower (224 kW) and 295 lb-ft of torque across a large amount of its rpm ranges. A disadvantage of a straight-five over a straight-six engine is that a straight-five engine is not inherently balanced. A straight-five design has free moments (vibrations) of the first and second order, while a straight-six has zero free moments. This means that no additional balance shafts are needed in a straight-six. By comparison an inline-four engine has no free moments of the first or second order, but it does have a large free force of the second order which contributes to the vibration found in unbalanced straight-four designs.[1] ![]() EOD. |
Autor/ica: | gonzo [ čet ruj 17, 2009 10:48 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
i dobro T5 brunda po tome na visokim obrtajima sto ja mogu suprotno tvrdit onak iz prve ruke al nema veze jer je to skroz prihvatljivo s obzirom koliko se vremena provodi na Hi RPM. cinjenica je da T4 brunda cijelo vrijme tj. od lera pa do visokih obrtaja,i to to ti mogu iz prve ruke potvrdit jer su se cak vibracije prenosile u kabinu a na leru ti necu ni spominjat. ![]() ![]() uglavnom T5 radi puno ugladjenije od T4 motora i to ce ti potvrdit svako tko ima petaka.. |
Autor/ica: | nenad [ čet ruj 17, 2009 10:50 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
A ja ču samo na ovo Gonzino dodati tek da čujete mirnoču rada 6-aka ![]() ![]() |
Autor/ica: | tcode [ čet ruj 17, 2009 10:56 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Dečaci, skupo vi tu "mirnoću" u radu petaka plaćate, prizali vi to ili ne ![]() |
Autor/ica: | gonzo [ čet ruj 17, 2009 10:56 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: A ja ču samo na ovo Gonzino dodati tek da čujete mirnoču rada 6-aka
![]() ![]() ja cu to uskoro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() @grimm ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Autor/ica: | nenad [ čet ruj 17, 2009 10:57 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Tomo nisam provokator pokušao sam ti samo dočarati smisao motora sa više cilindara ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Autor/ica: | gonzo [ čet ruj 17, 2009 10:58 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: Dečaci, skupo vi tu "mirnoću" u radu petaka plaćate, prizali vi to ili ne
![]() istina ,moj T5 isto trosi kao i onaj T4 (isto konja) a cudno je sto je tezi jos za 200kila i ima 1 cil vise ![]() ![]() morao bi do servisa sigurno nesto nije uredu sa motorom ![]() ![]() |
Autor/ica: | KIKIR6 [ čet ruj 17, 2009 11:00 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: 1.Svi ste nahvalili članak a i tamo to piše što ja tvrdim... Nemojte da moram quotati...
2.6 ili 8 je priča za sebe, pogotovo V8 koji je besprijekorno izbalansiran i miran motor, a i redni 6tak isto tako... Neusporedivo sa 5 cyl... Sjetih se i još jednog savršenog motora - bmw-ov v12, kako to prede... 3.Koji s40 i koji s60 - dizelski su mi banana općenito bez obzira koji motor jer ne volim dizele nikakve ni u čemu, vozio sam i s40 dizela u svim varijantama, i s60 d5; a t5 nisam imao čast voziti još, pa da ga mogu usporediti s t4... 4.Ne podcjenjujem ničije znanje ni iskustvo, ali moje vlastito mi govori to što tvrdim cijelo vrijeme - da su motori s neparnim brojem cyl brundavi... 1. to se oupče ne skuži, ono kaj ja govorim da 5 cil Volvo benz radi mirnije od 4 cil ( zato postoji zamašnjak i damper na remenici ) 2. točno 3. neusporedivo, D5 vs T4 D5 je vrhunski motor za S60 što se tiče voznih osobina vs potrošnja, točno po mojoj mjeri, 4. Volvo-vi ne brundaju |
Autor/ica: | nenad [ čet ruj 17, 2009 11:05 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Kad smo sad ja i Grim gledali BMW-V8 tek su ti svi redom radili nemirnije od ovog 6-aka.Sad jel je to do problema na motoru ili je to normalno za njihovog 8-ka nisam siguran.Al me čudi ![]() |
Autor/ica: | tcode [ čet ruj 17, 2009 11:25 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: Citat: Dečaci, skupo vi tu "mirnoću" u radu petaka plaćate, prizali vi to ili ne
![]() istina ,moj T5 isto trosi kao i onaj T4 (isto konja) a cudno je sto je tezi jos za 200kila i ima 1 cil vise ![]() ![]() morao bi do servisa sigurno nesto nije uredu sa motorom ![]() ![]() http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/m ... 1000km.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "On the road Fuel efficiency The test car used 8-9 litres/100 km on the highway, and 13-14 litres/100 km in town, which is quite good for a turbo-charged engine delivering nearly 200 kW." T4 troši 11l u gradu, a nakon što je bio čipnut, i mrvicu manje. P.S. 250KS nisi nikada imao u T4 ![]() |
Autor/ica: | Kova [ čet ruj 17, 2009 11:52 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: Citat: evo pročitajte ovaj text pa onda komentirajte dalje!!
Pametnom dosta The five-cylinder engine's advantage over a comparable four-cylinder engine is best understood by considering power strokes and their frequency. A four-stroke cycle engine fires all its cylinders every 720 degrees — the crankshaft makes two complete rotations. If we assume an even firing engine, we can divide 720 degrees by the number of cylinders to determine how often a power stroke occurs. 720 degrees ÷ 4 = 180 degrees, so a four-cylinder engine gets a power stroke every 180 degrees. A V8 engine gets a power stroke every 90 degrees, (720° ÷ 8 = 90°). A given power stroke can last no more than 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation, so the power strokes of a four-cylinder engine are sequential, with no overlap. At the end of one cylinder's power stroke another cylinder fires. In a one-, two-, or three-cylinder engine there are times when no power stroke is occurring. In a three-cylinder engine a power stroke occurs every 240 degrees, (720° ÷ 3 = 240°). Since a power stroke cannot last longer than 180 degrees, this means that a three-cylinder engine has 60 degrees of "silence" when no power stroke takes place. A five-cylinder engine gets a power stroke every 144 degrees (720° ÷ 5 = 144°). Since each power stroke lasts 180 degrees, this means that a power stroke is always in effect. Because of uneven levels of torque during the expansion strokes divided among the five cylinders, there is increased secondary-order vibrations. At higher engine speeds, there is an uneven third-order vibration from the crankshaft which occurs every 144 degrees. Because the power strokes have some overlap, a five-cylinder engine may run more smoothly than a non-overlapping four-cylinder engine, but only at limited mid-range speeds where second and third-order vibrations are lower. Every cylinder added beyond five increases the overlap of firing strokes and makes for less primary order vibration. An inline-six gets a power stroke every 120 degrees. So there is more overlap (180° - 120° = 60°) than in a five-cylinder engine (180° - 144° = 36°). However, this increase in smoothness of a six-cylinder engine over a five-cylinder engine is not as pronounced as that of a five-cylinder engine over a four-cylinder engine. The inline-five loses less power to friction as compared to an inline-six. It also uses fewer parts, and it is physically shorter, so it requires less room in the engine bay, allowing for transverse mounting. A five-cylinder engine is longer and more expensive to manufacture than a comparable four-cylinder engine, but some manufacturers feel these costs are outweighed by its greater capacity in a smaller space than a six-cylinder. From the standpoint of driving experience, five-cylinder engines are noted for combining the best aspects of four and six cylinder engines. They generate more power and torque than four cylinder engines, while maintaining the fuel economy and "pep" of smaller four cylinder engines. Five cylinder turbos have been used on more than one occasion in sport and racing applications for their balance of performance qualities. The Volvo S60 R (racing edition) has a 2.5 litre turbocharged inline five-cylinder engine which is capable of generating 300 brake horsepower (224 kW) and 295 lb-ft of torque across a large amount of its rpm ranges. A disadvantage of a straight-five over a straight-six engine is that a straight-five engine is not inherently balanced. A straight-five design has free moments (vibrations) of the first and second order, while a straight-six has zero free moments. This means that no additional balance shafts are needed in a straight-six. By comparison an inline-four engine has no free moments of the first or second order, but it does have a large free force of the second order which contributes to the vibration found in unbalanced straight-four designs.[1] ![]() EOD. 1) 4-cilindrični motori rade bez "preklapanja" (radilica se uvijek opterećuje samo u jednoj točki): A given power stroke can last no more than 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation, so the power strokes of a four-cylinder engine are sequential, with no overlap. At the end of one cylinder's power stroke another cylinder fires. 2) 5-cilindrični motor uvijek s jednim klipom (doduše ne punom snagom) uravnotežuje radilicu dok ju drugi klip pritišće punom snagom: A five-cylinder engine gets a power stroke every 144 degrees (720° ÷ 5 = 144°). Since each power stroke lasts 180 degrees, this means that a power stroke is always in effect. 3) 6-cilindrični motor još bolje uravnotežuje radilicu: An inline-six gets a power stroke every 120 degrees. So there is more overlap (180° - 120° = 60°) than in a five-cylinder engine (180° - 144° = 36°). Zaključak: However, this increase in smoothness of a six-cylinder engine over a five-cylinder engine is not as pronounced as that of a five-cylinder engine over a four-cylinder engine. |
Autor/ica: | Kova [ čet ruj 17, 2009 11:57 am ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: Kad smo sad ja i Grim gledali BMW-V8 tek su ti svi redom radili nemirnije od ovog 6-aka.Sad jel je to do problema na motoru ili je to normalno za njihovog 8-ka nisam siguran.Al me čudi
To je vrlo moguće. Što mu je V-kut veći slabije uravnotežuje radilicu. Redni 8-ak (na kojeg možeš gledati kao na V8 s kutem 0) bi to trebao odraditi bolje od 6-aka, ali za V8 to ne mora nužno stajati..
![]() |
Autor/ica: | Kova [ čet ruj 17, 2009 12:03 pm ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: Dečaci, skupo vi tu "mirnoću" u radu petaka plaćate, prizali vi to ili ne
Istina, ali zato ne moramo kupovati skupe audio uređaje (kao neki) jer imamo već ugrađenu muziku ispod haube.. ![]() ![]() |
Autor/ica: | tcode [ čet ruj 17, 2009 12:26 pm ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Ja svoj skupi audio uređaj prodajem baš iz razloga što mi previše muzike dopire iz motornog prostora i ispušnog sustava, pa mi ovaj ugrađen u autu i nema previše smilsa ![]() Btw. što se tiće vibracija na motorima sa manje cilindara, mislim da to nije neki poseban problem, takvi motori se jednostavno preciznije izbalansiraju u startu. Na našim prostorima postoji par Hondica sa 4 cil motorima, a vrte se preko 9k rpm-a. U svijetu se nađe nerijetko i sa 10k+ okretaja, također "samo" 4 cilindra. |
Autor/ica: | Kova [ čet ruj 17, 2009 12:39 pm ] |
Naslov: | Re: 5 vs 4 cilindra |
Citat: Ja svoj skupi audio uređaj prodajem baš iz razloga što mi previše muzike dopire iz motornog prostora i ispušnog sustava, pa mi ovaj ugrađen u autu i nema previše smilsa
Te vibracije ne utiču toliko na broj okretaja koji možeš postići, nego, osim nerminijeg rada motora u leru uzrokuju jače habanje ležajeva radilice. Pri nekim "normalnim" snagama to i nije tak strašan problem ali pri većim snagama bi ležajevi bitno kraće trajali kod 4 cilindra nego kod 5-cilindara, da ne spominjem više cilindrične motore. ![]() Btw. što se tiče vibracija na motorima s manje cilindara, mislim da to nije neki poseban problem, takvi motori se jednostavno preciznije izbalansiraju u startu. Na našim prostorima postoji par Hondica sa 4 cil motorima, a vrte se preko 9k rpm-a. U svijetu se nađe nerijetko i sa 10k+ okretaja, također "samo" 4 cilindra. Još jednom, nema F1 bezveze 10 cilindara, a bome i na 24 sata LeMansa nećeš baš vidjeti motore s malo cilindara.. |
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